Sam Hawley: For everyone in the room, except for the US ambassador, Kevin Rudd, it was a smooth and cordial affair. Anthony Albanese's meeting with Donald Trump saw the leaders sign a multi-billion dollar critical minerals agreement and the US president fully back the AUKUS submarine deal. Today, ABC correspondent Jane Norman, who was in the room, on the one or two awkward moments and why in the end, the timing of the meeting couldn't have been better for the prime minister. I'm Sam Hawley on Gadigal land in Sydney. This is ABC News Daily.
Donald Trump, US President: Well, thank you very much. It's great to have the prime minister of Australia. Fantastic place. A lot of friends over there, and this is one of them right here. We've been long-term, long-time allies, and I would say there's never been anybody better. We fought wars together.
Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister: Well, thank you so much, Mr President, for the invitation here to the White House and for showing us around the improved Oval Office. We are great friends and we're great allies. Today's agreement on critical minerals and rare earths is just taking it to the next level.
Sam Hawley: Jane, let's come to the details of this critical minerals deal in a moment, but why don't we just start by discussing the optics? Because this meeting, which we were waiting for for a very long time, from all accounts, it went really well, didn't it?
Jane Norman: It did, Sam. I mean, it was without doubt a huge success for Anthony Albanese. I guess you could say it's a bit of a case of, good things come to those who wait because after this 40-minute, pretty freewheeling meeting in the Cabinet Room today, Anthony Albanese emerged with everything he needed. But he also was shown to have a very warm and friendly relationship with President Trump, who is famously unpredictable. He's transactional and has used these kind of one-on-one meetings in the past, as we know, to ambush friends and allies or treat them with a great deal of hostility. But there was no hostility shown today in what was a really friendly meeting. He was almost heaping praise on the Prime Minister. The
Donald Trump, US President: Prime Minister is, as you know, Anthony Albanese, and he's highly respected, done very well in his election, and I hear you're very popular. He's done a fantastic job as the Prime Minister. We're here to talk about trade.
Sam Hawley: But there was a couple of awkward moments, Jane, I think we can say that. So why don't we start with those so we can get them out of the way? It came, of course, courtesy of a question from a journalist from Sky News, who I suppose wanted to land the former Prime Minister and now US Ambassador, Kevin Rudd, who was in the room, in hot water. So just tell me how this unfolded.
Jane Norman: Yeah, well, what was notable about this meeting was that Donald Trump assiduously avoided areas of contention, whether it's defence spending, tariffs, those kinds of irritants in the relationship. And so I think that that's what the Sky News reporter was trying to draw out of him, that this is a very, very friendly exchange, but we know that behind the scenes there have been some problems. And one of them, or one that we knew about, was Kevin Rudd. This is Anthony Albanese's hand-picked ambassador to the US who, shortly after becoming the ambassador, deleted some pretty controversial tweets about the US President. He called him a traitor and one of the most destructive presidents in history.
Journalist: Have you had any concerns with this administration with its stance on Palestine, climate change, or even things the ambassador said about you in the past, the Australian ambassador?
Donald Trump, US President: I don't know anything about him. I mean, if he said bad, then maybe he'll like to apologise. I really don't know. Where is he? Is he still working for you?
Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister: Yeah, yeah.
Donald Trump, US President: You said bad?
Kevin Rudd, Ambassador to the United States: Before I took this position, Mr President.
Donald Trump, US President: I don't like you either. I don't like you either. I don't, and I probably never will.
Jane Norman: Now, it was the one big, awkward moment that punctuated an otherwise very cordial kind of meeting and Anthony Albanese could be seen laughing it off. But I think it possibly confirms some theories about whether or not Kevin Rudd will get a second term as ambassador to the US.
Sam Hawley: OK, all right. It's always hard to know when Donald Trump is joking, right? It did seem like he was having a good, good old laugh about it, like sort of tongue in cheek. But, you know, it's always hard to read him. All right, anyway.
Jane Norman: It is, absolutely. And I should sort of note, Sam, that as we were being shepherded out of the room, Mr Rudd could be heard apologising to the President, but this exchange wasn't caught on camera. And so we don't have the exact wording of it. But, you know, perhaps he was trying to, you know, smooth over any tension created. I bet he was.
Sam Hawley: All right, well, there were actually a few testy moments during the questioning from journalists.
Journalist: Your power, the most powerful man on earth. Why don't you just enable Ukraine to finish this war tomorrow?
Donald Trump, US President: Well, if you knew anything about what you were talking about...
Journalist: I do, I do.
Donald Trump, US President: You do? I don't think you do.
Donald Trump, US President: Where do you come from?
Journalist: I'm from Australia.
Donald Trump, US President: Who are you with?
Journalist: The Sydney Morning Herald.
Donald Trump, US President: Nasty guy. Go ahead.
Journalist: Oh, sorry, I was just trying to ask a question.
Sam Hawley: But apart from that, as you say, it was really all smiles from Donald Trump and Anthony Albanese. And just to note, Jane, before we move on, it was not held in the lion's den, which is the Oval Office. It was moved at the last minute, right?
Jane Norman: It was moved at the last minute. And so we're told that it was moved to the Cabinet Room simply because they signed this deal. And I mean, it was also a bit of a masterstroke of Anthony Albanese's to start off this meeting, signing a deal with the dealmaker president of the United States so that both of them could sort of sit and scribble their signatures on these large pieces of paper.
Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister: I think that today will be seen as a really significant day in our relationship. So I thank you very much, Mr President.
Donald Trump, US President: Well, thank you very much, Anthony. It's an honour to sign this and we'll do it now.
Jane Norman: This also gave the Prime Minister a little bit of cover as well because he was able to have more of his officials in the room, as well as the Resources Minister, Madeline King, and Industry Minister, Tim Ayres, who he brought along for this visit. So I can tell you it's apparently a bit bigger than the Oval Office, but we were crammed in there like sardines with White House reporters who, of course, were trying to shout questions at Donald Trump relating to much more domestic US issues than anything to do with the US-Australia relationship.
Sam Hawley: All right, OK, so, Jane, the optics, apart from the Kevin Rudd moment, were all pretty good and really good for Anthony Albanese. But in a sense, I suppose you could expect that because Anthony Albanese, he walked into that room with a rather large carrot because we have something that Donald Trump really, really wants and needs right now, don't we? And that's critical minerals. Just explain that.
Jane Norman: Absolutely. So Australia has critical minerals and rare earths in abundant supply, but the problem is if you talk to anybody in the industry, they'll say pretty plainly that China has manipulated prices, it's manipulated the market to the point where the playing field is sort of unplayable. And so there's a consensus emerging around the world that governments basically have to throw money at this problem. It might be not such a great option for some governments who don't like market intervention, but it's becoming clearer that if you're going to be competing with China that has the stranglehold over the global supply of these critical elements, well, then governments are going to be needed to basically make projects economic. And so the two leaders did sign this critical minerals deal. And in the first instance, it will see Australia and the US jointly funding critical minerals projects to effectively get them off the ground.
Donald Trump, US President: In about a year from now, we'll have so much critical mineral and rare earths that you won't know what to do with them.
Sam Hawley: Mm, all right, just to put this into some context as well, though, Jane, the US has relied heavily on China for these critical minerals, but that all sort of fell apart last week, didn't it? Just remind me what happened there with China.
Jane Norman: It certainly did, and it's not just the US. China basically has the monopoly over the global supply of these critical minerals. So Australia actually digs them out of the ground and we send them to China to refine and process and export. And that's been the kind of missing piece of the puzzle for Australia is taking the industry to the next level. Well, about a week ago, Beijing really kind of rocked its pretty fragile trade truce with the White House when it announced that it would be imposing some strict export controls over these critical minerals and rare earths. And they're kind of vital for everything from a smartphone to a battery. But what's of greatest interest to Donald Trump is they're also vital for weapons and military hardware. And so he reacted very strongly to Beijing's plans. They've not yet been enacted. And Donald Trump will be actually meeting Xi Jinping, China's president, in about a week's time where he hopes to land some sort of trade deal. But in the meantime, he has threatened that if China does in fact stem the flow of rare earths and critical minerals, well, then America will be slapping hefty tariffs of up to 100% on Chinese products.
Sam Hawley: Mm. OK, so back to this deal then. What else do we know about it?
Jane Norman: Well, what we know in the first instance is that there are about six or so projects in Australia that the US and Australia will be jointly funding. So the governments talk about the pipeline of critical minerals being worth up to sort of $8.5 billion. But what we know is that the money going into it is about US$3 billion in the first instance. So some of these projects are in Queensland, Western Australia, Victoria, like a graphite mine and battery anode facility in Queensland that's being jointly funded by the US and Australia now as a northern minerals heavy rare earths project in Western Australia. So we've got some sort of details on the kind of projects that are being funded here because it's expensive, firstly, to extract rare earths. There's a huge amount of kind of environmental approvals that are required. And they're basically seen as uneconomic. And so that is the hope here with this money from the US and Australia that they're able to make a lot of these projects more economic and actually start making the sort of supply chain more sophisticated to get to the point where we're not just digging it out and shipping it off, but also refining and processing here.
Sam Hawley: There's still some unknowns, I think, in this deal too, isn't there? It's unclear how soon the mineral supply to the United States would be ramped up. And I think Anthony Albanese's office has said that it's not a legally binding deal. So I guess there's still some questions to be asked about how this will all play out.
Jane Norman: Absolutely. And I think that the biggest question, which is actually a question I put to Donald Trump, is how soon can Western nations like Australia and the US actually start to compete with China? Because we are decades behind Beijing.
Jane Norman: Can the US and Australia really compete with China? Aren't we decades behind in terms of the development of critical minerals and rare earths?
Donald Trump, US President: You've been reading the wrong newspapers. We're not that good. We are way ahead of China militarily.
Jane Norman: Very cleverly, China identified critical minerals and rare earths as a significant future issue many, many years ago. And so their supply chains are highly sophisticated. Ours are not. And so we are really starting from behind here, which means that it's going to take taxpayer funds to actually get a lot of these projects off the ground. And so those are very significant questions about just how soon we can actually get these sophisticated supply chains up and running to start competing with a country that's had a monopoly for decades.
Sam Hawley: All right, so Jane, the critical minerals deal was the headline item to come out of this meeting, of course. But during the meeting, Donald Trump also backed the Aukus nuclear submarine deal. Now, that's been under review by the Americans, but it seems like Donald Trump is all in.
Donald Trump, US President: Now we're starting. We have it all set with Anthony. We've worked on this long and hard and we're starting that process right now. And I think it's really moving along very rapidly, very well.
Jane Norman: He has given his presidential seal of approval, which would have come as such a huge relief to the Australian officials and the prime minister in the room. That's because the Pentagon is reviewing the agreement. All the signals we're told were very positive about that agreement. But Donald Trump himself, as we know, is hugely influential and he hasn't really said much about Aukus. And so today the president was asked multiple questions about Aukus. And so for the first time has publicly backed it. There was some suggestion from one of his defence officials that there was some ambiguity in the agreement that needed to be clarified. But then Donald Trump later said, no, nothing needs to be clarified. The deal is going ahead and, you know, the US will be supplying Australia with the boats as promised.
Donald Trump, US President: These are just minor details. So, Mr. Trump can ask you specifically on... John, you're going to get that taken care of, right? Correct. There shouldn't be any more clarifications because we're just we're just going now full steam ahead building.
Jane Norman: Because under the deal, Australia will acquire eight nuclear powered submarines. The first few will come directly from America. The government is now certain that Donald Trump backs this agreement.
Sam Hawley: I presume we still don't know exactly when we'll be getting these nuclear powered submarines, though, Jane.
Jane Norman: The first is scheduled for the early 2030s. But no, there's a lot of wriggle room around the agreement. It might be three, it might be five. And of course, there are concerns that have been raised by defence officials here in the US as to whether they're building enough submarines and quickly enough for their own purposes, let alone to sell to Australia.
Sam Hawley: Hmm. OK. All right. Well, another big issue, of course, is tariffs. Donald Trump, he seemed to be giving the vibe, Jane, that Australia's got off really lightly and we should be pretty grateful for that.
Jane Norman: Yeah, well, he he made it pretty clear he's just not for turning. He describes it as a powerful tool and would describe all of the amazing benefits in his view that come from tariffs.
Donald Trump, US President: I will say this. Australia pays very low tariffs, very, very low tariffs. In fact, Australia pays among the lowest tariffs.
Jane Norman: And so I guess that's a signal that it's we're just going to have to cop it.
Sam Hawley: OK, so we've got this 10 percent baseline tariff, of course. And then on steel and aluminium imports, it's a 50 percent tariff. So it looks like we're going to have to just cop that for now. All right, so, Jane, this was a much anticipated meeting, of course, it's finally done and well, from all accounts, it seems like it was worth the wait. What do you reckon?
Jane Norman: Well, I think so. And actually, the timing almost couldn't have been better for Anthony Albanese simply because of what we were just discussing China's move only a week ago regarding rare earths and critical minerals. It almost just like sharpened in the president's mind how vital this resource was. And here we have Anthony Albanese rocking up to the White House with a proposal to kind of solve or address this key American vulnerability. By waiting a little bit longer, he's able to, you know, leave Washington, D.C. with some crucial deals, assurances and really, I guess, a sense that despite Donald Trump's America first rhetoric and the political upheaval that we're seeing in Washington, the alliance between Australia and the US appears to be as strong as ever.
Sam Hawley: Yeah. All right. Well, Anthony Albanese has invited Donald Trump to visit Australia and the president says he's going to consider that. So we will see. But Jane, I mean, the ultimate question, what about Kevin Rudd? Is he safe as US ambassador?
Jane Norman: Well, that's a great question. He is about three years into his term or two or three years into his term as ambassador. And so I think if you were to predict the future, I think that he'll probably finish his term and then that will be it. This was ultimately the PM's pick as ambassador. And so I think to save face, he's not exactly going to pull him out early from Washington. And it's likely that Mr. Rudd will just finish his term and then move on to his next project.
Sam Hawley: All right. Well, Jane, thanks for being not in the lion's den, but in the room for us.
Jane Norman: Thank you.
Sam Hawley: Jane Norman is the ABCs national affairs correspondent. This episode was produced by Sydney Pead. Audio production by Sam Dunn. Our supervising producer is David Coady. I'm Sam Hawley . Thanks for listening.